We need a definite plan to prevent the Spinarts boys from taking our lunch money  in our own back yard. My original thought was to keep the race together so Wayne could go for a field sprint, but that might not be the way to go w/ Curley in the bunch. We have enough guys to sacrifice a few. Any thoughts?

I'll do whatever you tell me to do.  This info from Wayne Kirk:

MVC has (10) Master 45+ on Saturday and (8) on Sunday. Juniors (5) on Saturday and (7) on Sunday.

We should do team meetings near the start line fully dressed and ready to warm up 1/2 hr prior to each race to see how folks want to ride the race and determine team tactics. Weather looks great. good weekend ahead.
-Wayne Kirk

Kelly:

I think that your term "sacrifice a few" might have different some meanings for different MVC folks. 

Bill H. told me the story on Saturday night of what it meant to Bjarne Riis, Carlos Sastre, Andy Schleck and Frank Schleck the night before the Alpe D'Huez stage of this year's TDF. That night Riis told his three climbers that "tomorrow I need for someone to give everything to lose his TDF." It took teamwork to beat Cadel Evans (along with abundant stupidity on the part of Evan's Director Sportif).

Our Juniors team riders understand this concept.  I've seen them race either off the front or else off the back, having given it everything they had - as opposed to taking as big a pull as they could take and still stay in the peleton.  In group rides we learn to NOT take such a big pull that you get dropped, but races require us to "unlearn" years of our conditioned response at moments when tactics call for suicide attacks. But the Juniors have a very experienced Director Spotif, don't they.  Without this direction from above, I really doubt that they would race the way they do.

At the fitness level that  Curley's team members have, I think that successful efforts to beat them would require that the MVC riders who attack would not even be able to stay in the peleton when the peleton catches them. (because a MVC teammate would have attacked immediately and kept the pace at "eyeballs bleedin' intensity" ).  As long as 18th place is regarded as better than 31st place, then there will be a lot of 18th through 21st place finishes for the Orange-and-Blue Masters team, but podium finishes will be up to individuals taking their own risks and luck. We have some great individual riders and we will still have some wins, but we will not be able to control teams like Curley & Co. until we use up all our strong riders.  Train hard enough to be one of our best riders, and then volunteer to become "toilet paper"?!?!?!  Doesn't sound very enticing. 

As you, yourself  have said in the past, changing our style of racing and our results would require a change in mindset for most of our masters riders.  For example, I have been to races where our local "pro" Amos Brumble and his CCB team have virtually "put on a clinic" regarding how crit and road race team tactics should be used (all-out attacks by teammates designed to put their "protected rider" in the breakaway or there at the sprint finish), and the next day someone from MVC looks at the race results and says to me that Amos is having a bad year because his teammate keeps beating him and consistantly finishes on the podium.

Our races aren't televised on versus channel, so in the future when some of our strongest riders show up as DNFs on Monday morning's BikeReg race results, it will be up to us to credit them in the race reports and explain how their efforts enabled a MVC teammate to win the race.

Other than in TTs, the strongest rider doesn't always win the race - Just ask Cadel Evans!  Sastre didn't beat him - the Schleck brothers and team CSC did!

Successful crit racing takes time and experience.

Reading races is something that can contribute greatly to success.  We have a fair amount of horsepower on our team, but seldom do we seem to be able to put the right combination together.  Going all out to sacrifice yourself is only worthwhile if the effort is not wasted.  To initiate, follow or wait are the important decisions in a crit.

The key, if you are strong, is to be able to recover within a race to try again if your effort(s) are in vain.  Totally blowing yourself out of a race should only be executed on rare occassions.  Otherwise I favor taking some risks and practicing recovery.  Sitting in the pack for the entire race for a mediocre finish is not good race strategy, even when you are 55+ in a combined 45/55 field.  You have to be watching and thinking and strong enough to contribute.

When Mark went ballistic off the front, I moved up to lead the pack for a while to try to block. That also allowed me to take note of other 55+ riders that were near the front of the pack.  So when we neared the end of the race, I moved up closer to the front so that I could challenge the other 55+ riders that I had marked.

Individually moving to the front of the pack to pull, then recovering is something that eventually can lead to success as a team.  Sometimes a move to the front can be an all out attack.  If you get a gap, that's where the gamesmanship begins.  But we all need to be strong enough to be out in front for a while, then recover to play the game.

I was one of those riders that just showed up on Saturday, and did not contribute during the year, so I did not have a clue what to do when etc.  After sitting this year out I now have a desire to give it a go in 2009.

How about we gather those that want to race next season, and put pen to paper and hash out a racing schedule?  Not everyone can make each race, but the more we race together, the better we might become...

Check out the great Three Village Tour race report by Kelly in the blog section of the website.  I think he has an occupation to fall back on if the automotive gig goes south....

Good thread with some good ideas.  A couple more points:

Women road racers have the same problem that MVC masters men do in that there are so many races that our participant numbers are "diluted" over the whole season.  We can't expect 10 MVC 45+ and 6 55+ guys in every race. The solution for the women, and for us, is to select races that are MVC "A" races and get numbers in these events.  I suggest a balanced selection of 50% crits and 50% road races, and that the closest races get consideration, with quality of competition being the other determining factor.

As with the womens' peletons, we MVC men should continue to recruit in order to get sufficient numbers of racers.  Family obligations, illness and injuries, and race cancellations all contribute to "dilute" even the strongest, deepest teams. 

We have been to many events where there are only one or two masters riders from Arc-en-Ciel, Spinarts, BOB, or CCB, but we have also seen large numbers of riders from these teams in their nearby races and in prestigious events.  They are obviously putting out "memos" about which races they want to focus on.

It is tough to train hard and get to the point where you might be able to win a race, and then go out and ride so hard for a teammate that you get spit put the back or are rendered useless for further meaningful work in a race.  To add insult to injury, you don't even get a partial refund of your entry fee! HOWEVER, this is what Curley's team and some of the other top teams do.  They have several guys who have the ability to win, and they sacrifice when necessary - usually by mounting all-out attacks that risk 100%.  (I wonder who set this whole concept up for them?  Perhaps it is the same guy who coached the McCormack Brothers?  Initials P.C.?  D' ya' sppose?) 

Anyway, I'm "in" for the 2009 season.  Long, cold winter rides, MTB night rides, eyeballs-bleeding speed work, climbing love fests, core and conditioning training, yoga, massages, diet management, quality sleep time - the whole she-bang - no excuses, just hard training and total focus. Plenty of time to rest when you're dead!  The bonus (for y'all) is that I won't have time to post these long blah-blah-blah's!

I bet we'd all really appreciate it if a few of our strongest and most dedicated racers would take leadership roles in working on the team tactics for our age groups.  It doesn't have to be the same leader for all the races - in fact, it would be good to share the responsibilities among several riders as they peak and as they go to their own favorite, familiar events. We will not create "masterpieces" each and every time, but if we agree that we have all to gain and nothing to lose, then we should eventually get some of the races right and get some wins.  This does involve putting each participant under a new type of  "pressure", especially  those who are "protected" riders.  If you are a strong and brave sprinter, then there will be that particular responsibility facing you.  If you are a superior TT specialist, then expect to use that strength to maximum benefit.  If we have a first-rate climber in a climber's race, then we deliver the climber  to the climb "freight pre'paid, special delivery", and he bears the burden from there. If the rest of us hitch-hike home from there it doesn't matter. (Just stay out of the ambulance!)

The "regulars" had some great races this year, and between their performance and those of the Juniors, I sincerely hope that others will get as "jacked" as I am to make '09 "our year" in New England's best road race events.  I really and truly think that MVC could be competitive with any other masters "teams" in our age categories if we focused our resources the way they do.

It all begins now with individual dedication to the concept that we CAN be part of "something bigger" in this, the hardest sport in the world.

I heard it on Versus Channel, so it must be true.  Phil Ligget and his buddies call this the "hardest sport".